Katie Riester

0:00 GPs so often, breathlessly start giving their pitch. And so very much want to tell their story because they feel like that's what they were invited to the call to do, which is kind of true. - Yeah. - But if you can just start by asking the LP a couple of questions, like hey, you don't have

0:16 to tell me the names, but can you describe the last two or three venture investments that you made? I'd love to understand what you look for in a manager. It's okay to ask LP these questions. It's totally, it's in fact, you should. - This is Katie Reister, Managing Director at Felicis. An LP for 15 years before that.

0:32 - Net Felicis, we have a very robust debate culture, robust research culture. So there are a lot of true conversations. Like, really? Like, why do you think that? The other thing is the information flow and the speed of make a decision

0:47 was so much more rapid fire. I thought I worked in high stakes, fast moving, environment, and like, I did not know what that was until I walked into work here. - What had been some of the best forms of communication that you received? - So you sent a newsletter, okay? How many times are you willing to do this on your phone,

1:03 scroll on your phone before your kid pulls your pant leg? Someone talks to you or a message shows up too? - Maybe two. - That's what I was gonna say is like, keep it short, keep it punchy, like, here's a new investment that I made, here's why I made it. You can't jam it all in.

1:19 You have to just be selected. - What is the archetype of a founder that you look for and how you like to back them? - Okay, well, I'll give you another controversial take. - Welcome back to LPO Uncovered, the podcast that takes us behind the firms and to the people that are building

1:35 this ecosystem around us. And today's a special one I say it every time, but I'm coming to you live from the Felicis Office in the Presidio in San Francisco. For those of you that aren't familiar, Felicis is a really visionary fund. They've been around for about 20 years, have just over 4 billion in assets under management.

1:51 And in 2025, closed a $900 million plus fund, really deploying across all sorts of innovation, AI included. Today's also special, I'm sitting here with Katie, who is the GP and managing director of the Fund of Funds program.

2:07 That Katie has unique insights, right? She started her career at Cambridge Associates and then stayed with SBB Capital where she deployed capital into a bunch of funds as an LP. Today that's known as Pine Grove. And she'd actually had met the firm really early in its inception and cultivated that deep relationship

2:24 before joining them just about a decade ago. And we're going to cover a whole bunch of topics today, including how do you think about your LP relationships? What is the cadence of that communication? How do you tie in values with how you think about investing and making sure that you're aligning that with both your LP base as well as the founders that you back?

2:41 And all sorts of tips and tricks behind it. So thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you to Katie for joining. Let's dive on in and get started. Katie, thanks so much for joining us today on LPN covered. I've been looking forward to this episode for a very, very long time. You are a wealth of knowledge which we just learned

2:57 about from this intro, but just first off, just thank you for taking time out of your really busy schedule. Absolutely, thanks for having me. Yeah, one thing that I loved about reading about you is just such a robust background, starting on the allocator side, positioning and shifting into the BC side.

3:13 We just heard a little bit about it, but in your own words, what have been some of the biggest things that you've learned and walk us through that transition for your own career? Sure. So you mentioned some of the firms I've worked at. I will take it back even further.

3:28 So as a, I guess I was a college student, I actually worked at Vanguard, the giant mutual fund company. I grew up outside of Philadelphia. It's headquartered there and I loved it. It was a great experience,

3:43 although what it made me realize is so the next summer actually interned at a private equity fund. I really didn't know what that was at the time, but my mom knew someone there and I spent the summer basically analyzing housing data

4:00 because they were considering some big investments, which was part of the big housing boom back then. And those two summers were really interesting for me. I realized there's an incredible way for people to generate wealth using the public markets and also using the private markets. And to me, as a very young person,

4:17 the difference between those two methods was basically market influence versus effort of an individual. And so that is actually when I fell in love with venture capital and private equity. And I thought, okay, if you can build a company

4:35 and through much of your own effort, you are for some period of time, potentially protected from some of the outside influences of the markets, like that's really cool. And so that was paired with my love

4:52 and sort of almost a calling to feel like I wanted to contribute positively to the world. And that's how I ended up at Cambridge Associates, which you talked about. And that was the perfect place for me to start my career because so many of my clients were nonprofits.

5:07 I learned about all of the asset classes and ultimately came back to a love of venture and private equity, which led me to SGB capital and ultimately to Felicis. But I think the really cool thread to pull through all of this is that if you can kind of combine

5:24 what just motivates you and get you excited, you can often find that in surprising ways to inside your own career in lots of different places. - Yeah, it's cool how you had such robust background, especially foundationally, the level of rigor from a vanguard or within PE or certainly Cambridge Associates.

5:42 You look to underwrite in ways that are very intangible, what gives you these really fascinating insights to the private market where you're looking to tend best capital. And one thing that you mentioned and I know as near and dear to is you've been active with groups out here like Safe and Sound

5:58 and really thinking about the impact of those capital and capital markets to the world around us. And one thing that I've always been really impressed with with Felicis is you're not just tracking the impact of your portfolio companies, but you're also sharing impact from the LP base around you too.

6:13 So I know we'll dive all into Felicis and the way you think about investing. But beforehand, talk to us a little bit about your values, what you share personally, how that aligns with the firm, how do you track that, what matters? - Thank you for mentioning Safe and Sound. It has been an incredibly important part of my life.

6:29 I found it when I moved out to California and I was frankly very lonely. I didn't know a lot of people. I realized I needed to get involved in the community. And so I thought to myself, okay, who is 100% going to be excited to see me

6:46 whenever I show up and I thought about kids, right? Kids always want more attention and love interacting with people. So I googled how to volunteer with kids and what I actually found was something a little different. I found Safe and Sound. So what I ended up doing was getting involved

7:01 in their crisis lines. This is a crisis line for caregivers and parents in San Francisco. And the whole idea here is it's one of the programs that they offer to help reduce incidents of child abuse. And it's amazing, it's 24/7, 365. I should remember how long it's been going.

7:17 It's been going for decades and it can be anonymous if you want. And basically what you're doing is you're picking up the phone and you're helping someone who has reached out and knows they need to connect with another adult. Something might be going on at home, maybe something's going on with their kids

7:33 and they are trying to find a different way to manage these feelings. And that was one of the most transformative, I did over a thousand hours on this crisis line or the course of years. And it was one of the most transformative experiences

7:48 I've ever had because these are people I've never met and will never meet in person. And it was just, I think it gave me so much of what I have today, which is talking to LPs, talking to GPs, understanding what people need,

8:03 reading through behind what they might be saying to what do you actually need or what might be going on right now. And in addition to obviously hopefully helping a lot of people, it's given me a huge amount of skills. I've now been on the board for almost nine years.

8:19 This is my last year 'cause there's a term limit. So I'll have to figure out what's next, but it's been an incredible organization to be part of. - Yeah, well, congratulations to you. I've got a three and a five year old and so I can echo that they are very influential at that time.

8:34 But those types of organizations matter a ton. I can't admit that they always are excited to see me most of the time, depending on if we're taking away a certain candy or cookies or doughnuts from them. But that's incredible and it really aligns with, I'm sure who you are and how you view the world.

8:50 And one thing I was really impressed with is, you're not just tracking the impact that your founders have on the consumers they serve and the people that they serve, but you're also tracking your LPs and the impact that they have on the world around us and aligning in your values. Walk us a little bit more and like,

9:05 how do you structure that? What do you look for in the LPs and how do you communicate your own goals and aspirations when it comes to doing positive work and an impact on the world around us when you're thinking about investing? - Yeah, happy to talk about that. So that is one of the reasons I actually joined Felicis

9:24 is that I knew I didn't from the very beginning. I was actually an LP in the very first fund. So I met him in 2010 and then some deep soon after when I was at SVG Capital, investing out of the Fund of Funds program. And so I already knew Felicis was special.

9:41 Put my money where my mouth was, we invested in the very first fund, as I said. And so when he and I began talking, we had lunch one day and he sort of said, you know, I think our LPs are really special. And I said, well, I agree.

9:57 You know, I think people don't pay enough attention to LPs. And he said, well, that's just it, right? I'm focused on building this firm. I'm focused on investing and they deserve really a dedicated person. And so this was in 2017. And so if you take yourself back there,

10:12 that there were not a lot of positions like this, except at the very biggest venture firms. And even some of those, like it was basically the managing partner, managing all this, the LP relationships or maybe the COO, something like that. So him stating that and me having already felt that

10:31 was like a really good match. I said, oh my goodness, one of the top performing funds and my fund of funds is basically describing a dream opportunity for me and what made it even better. And we can get to this a little bit, is that I also still get to invest in other funds. I still get to be an LP. Because we have a fund of funds program inside.

10:48 So the icing on the cake for all of that is that he already had built an amazing LP base of what we call world positive or influencing positively in the world organizations. And so then I got to do work with him to do even more on that.

11:04 So what we have today are all different types of LPs, because you also have to put your business hat on and say, okay, I need a diversified stable LP base. So when I think about what you're asking, I think, I also have kids. I say, when my kids ask what I do,

11:20 one of the things I get to say is, mom helps scientists do better work or have money to fund their research. Mom helps artists. Mom helps a music festival. Mom helps children's hospitals treat kids. We have all kinds of,

11:37 and even some of the ones that you may not immediately put in a nonprofit bucket, like insurance companies, right? Those are helping businesses take on risk. And so that is, you can do so much with this.

11:52 And it just makes it all better. We actually had a very difficult-to-win round. This was probably two years ago. And I'm doing my own stuff and then the team says to me, Katie, we've met with these guys like five times.

12:09 This is the final meeting. You need to come in and talk about our LPs, because one of them had just had a baby. - Oh, yeah. - And that, I think always, if people have not already been sort of oriented in this way, having bringing a child into the world, people are like, hold on. I better make sure this is a good place.

12:25 And so this person had just, this founder had just had a baby. And so basically, I think there was a huge amount of work that Felicis did. We can talk about that, what the types of things we do to attract founders and win them in competitive situations. But basically, one of the final things was,

12:42 if I do well and you do well, who is going to benefit from that? And so I was able to come to this meeting and talk about all of these wonderful world positive organizations that will be able to fulfill their missions with hopefully all of the proceeds that we send them.

12:59 - That's right. Well, I love that model. And I was also tracking that you like to engage, like you mentioned with your LP base, with your founder. So they understand, what are the outcomes of that from a monetary perspective? Certainly partnerships along the way that can help you think through

13:14 how do you reach more consumers, how do you distribute these products. So I'd love to, before we shift over to the kind of key learnings and lessons, but you know, one of the key foundations here is fortune favors the brave. And that encapsulates a few different things,

13:29 how you think about when to back founders. Also, how do you think about skill versus luck and engineering those opportunities? Maybe first on the founder DNA, I saw that you've backed folks from over 40 countries and you like to come in early, but what is the archetype of a founder

13:44 that you look for and how you like to back them? So one of the key core values of Felicis, which has been a core value since I've started, which is going almost on a decade, is learn and adapt rapidly. And this is part of why I think we've been so successful

14:01 throughout market cycles. So the founder profile has changed over time. And you know, I think the market, for a long time recognize sort of the product founder, the I can walk into a room and manifest hundreds of millions of dollars wanting to invest in me founder.

14:17 And today what we call our founders, the researcher founder. And so founders today more than maybe it's almost a return to the very beginning of venture capital, some of them are coming out of academia, some of them are actually writing real papers and that is the thesis for their companies.

14:34 And so we have today recognize that as a key founder quality or kind of where they're coming from, not all of them, of course, but that's important. And I would say always, no matter what the era of venture that we're in has been grit, persistence,

14:51 ability to, same as we hold ourselves to, learn and adapt rapidly. I think now more so than ever. - Yeah, I love that. And absolutely the market is shifting around us where companies can learn and adapt this as fast as ever, especially utilizing a lot of AI tools and agents

15:08 and things that can help you build and scale and create velocity is what we define it as like, how quickly can you move and adapt. I'm curious, internally, have you all taken many strides and how do you think about learning and adapting rapidly internally? And how does that help you with this, you know,

15:24 engineering of luck? - Yeah, that's one, yes, yes, yes, yes. We are constantly pushing ourselves or being pushed by our colleagues like, okay, good job, what's next? And it's not really that casual,

15:39 but it's how can you just keep always upping the game? Because guess what? Everybody else is doing that too. And everything is evolving, right? Like we just talked about, you can't keep using the same playbook when the cards in front of you on the table have changed.

15:56 So I'll take some of the things that I've done with our LPs first and then we can do some others if you want. But I recently took what I felt was a little bit of a risk. And we had our annual meeting. So we actually kind of do have a playbook for our annual meeting.

16:13 We adjusted each time, but there's a huge amount of work. You do this too. - Yes, yeah, months and months, yeah, yeah. - So you sweat, you work, you try to make this great experience. And then the truth of it is it's a couple of hours, right?

16:29 And those are really important hours. Okay, so what do you do after those hours? Traditionally, maybe there's been a cocktail hour the night before, we actually do do that. I think it loosens everybody up. It's like the first time you see people are not right when you walk on stage, everybody wants that, hey, good to see you type of moment,

16:45 and that initial chit chat. And then we had a morning full of content, which I actually think was great. We had Elisa, our CMO, made these incredible, I almost thought of them as like baseball, like walk up sort of pump up videos

17:01 for our founders as they got on the stage. So that was like one small improvement that we made, which is sometimes when people get on stage and then they have to explain who they are and what they do, then that's the whole thing. They don't get to talk about the progress, what their revenue is, everything.

17:17 So that kind of grease that and then or smooth that transition. So we had this whole great morning, then we had lunch and historically we had just said, okay. - Thanks for coming. - Thanks for coming. And I thought like, oh my gosh, we just spent all this time creating this content,

17:33 creating this experience. They just got this huge download. Why would we say goodbye? And so the risk here was I was feeling that we, spent all this time in the LPs just say, well, I want to spend time with you and I'll spend time with the investment team. What does that mean?

17:49 I think what it means is they want to have a conversation that's less scripted and more whatever they need, right? And so this almost kind of goes back to the talk line stuff that I was talking about is when you're, what does somebody really need when they ask for something.

18:04 And so what we did was after lunch we created, we broke everybody into three groups. So they were smaller, more intimate. It's about 15 people in each group. And we split our investment team into three small groups and we basically did three rotating sessions of ask me anything.

18:19 - Awesome. - And so the risk was one, I get crickets is nobody asked questions and I'm like, okay, I just made people sit through 90 minutes of horror. Or two, like, I don't know. So there's some off the wall question that I couldn't be in every room. You know, someone didn't quite know how to answer

18:36 because I had never been asked before, but none of that happened. - I'm great. - It was great. - Yeah. - And you know, they're LP stretched and asked some good, tough questions, which we appreciated. That's what we wanted. We were inviting that. And at the end of the day, we actually had another,

18:51 provided an opportunity to have another cocktail hour. We had like ping-pong out games and people were just so much more relaxed. - Yeah. - And then we felt, I think, very generally very satisfied because they had that opportunity.

19:06 They were invited, like, no, we really want you to ask us. And we're giving you all of this time to do it instead of like a five minute, okay, any questions? Like, here's the mic in front of 100 people and I'm just so glad we did that. - Yeah, that's a wonderful idea too.

19:22 And one is good thing you did that before the happy hour. Maybe if you'd had the happy hour and then broke in the sessions and you might get some different types of questions, but it reflects a lot of empathy on your part. And empathy is something that as I was coming up through the ranks as an operator,

19:37 it was kind of the word to use to try to get to know who you're building for. But for you, you have empathy 'cause you sat in those seats and you spend a lot of your time understanding and allocating and certainly you're still doing that within your fund-to-fund sleeve but you're spending a lot of time cultivating these programs.

19:53 And I'm curious if there's anything that's stuck with you as you're transitioning from being a full-time allocator now to managing a lot of really key relationships. And is there anything that surprised you, something that gave you perspective as a venture capitalist

20:10 that maybe you didn't have a true understanding? And also if there's anything that you still remember having been a full-time dedicated allocator that you always remind yourself is important to keep in mind. - Yeah, that's a good question. I would say,

20:29 I think that remembering my allocator days and things have changed, I was at Cambridge sort of late 2000s and then SBB sort of through, or sorry, early 2000s and then SBB through like 2017-ish.

20:44 And I think the power dynamic was a little different back then, right? I think VCs were less transparent. So there was always this big mystery of like, "Okay, we're getting what feels like a very ring-fenced

21:01 set of data and information here. Access feels very limited." And I don't mean just the ability to invest in a fund. I just mean the ability to even learn about the fund. Some funds were better than others, but... - Very manicured, well, well put together,

21:16 but not necessarily transparent. - That's a great way to put it. Yeah, I think it was manicured. I don't think anyone was purposely like hiding anything, but it created this wondering of like, "Huh, that felt really manicured. That felt really set. Like what is really happening here?"

21:32 And so I can still kind of remember my first day, like, you know, investment team meeting, sending at the big table and I was like, "Okay, it's pretty much what I thought it was." Like everyone's debating deals. Everyone's like, "Hey, I met this founder, you know." And at Felice says we have a very robust sort of debate culture,

21:51 robust research culture. So there are a lot of true conversations. Like, really? Like, why do you think that? Or, "Oh, like, I actually heard this. That sounds really different than that." Or, "Hey, like, can you ask this person that because I'm really worried or wondering about this?"

22:06 So that was fun for me. I'm like, "Okay, it's really happening." The other thing, and I think this is pretty Felice specific, is I was, I have worked really hard

22:23 at every single job I have. When I got here, the information flow and the speed of just having to consume, think about something, make a decision, or decide like, "Okay, I need more information," or like, "No, I'm good."

22:39 Was so much more rapid fire than even working. I mean, I felt like it might as would be capital. Now it's called Pine Grove. The way we can refer to it as Pine Grove. 'Cause Pine Grove, like, I had like five jobs within a job, right? Yeah. And so it was kind of a startup within a larger platform.

22:55 And that was unbelievable to me. I'm like, "Well, I didn't think anything could get any faster." And I've heard that from other people who have joined, like, "Okay, I thought I worked in sort of a high stakes, fast moving, pivoting moment to moment environment."

23:10 And like, I did not know what that was until I walked over here. I mean, you came in here, U.S. - Like, "Oh!" - From out of time, yeah. - Yeah, well, it's wonderful to the healthy debate culture that you mentioned. We try to cultivate similar of a disagree and commit moment where you don't want to wish you had said something

23:26 at some time. You really want to create that healthy debate. And you all have done that at scale. And I'm curious kind of shifting over from the programs that you've built and how you engage with your LPs. You still have a function, a fund of funds, where you're acting as an LP. Part of LPM covered is really to understand

23:42 the different types of allocators that are out there and the strategies and what's important to them. So what's important to you? What's important to Felicis when you're looking at allocating towards fund managers and emerging fund managers? - Yeah. So the program has, we've invested about $57 million

24:00 over the course of, basically since Felicis has been around. So I'll call it 20 years. We're actually on our 20th year anniversary. - Yeah, congrats. - Thank you. And we've actually more than paid ourselves back.

24:15 So I was just checking this right before our podcast recording here and our DPI is actually 1.2. - Great, yeah. - Good job. We have a company that's actually, so the Fund of Fund program relative to the overall fund size is small.

24:30 So it's limited to about 5% of the fund size, okay? So that's the perspective of the amount of, or the size of the investment we're making here. Checks are small, generally about 500K, sometimes a million. Right now, for example, the fund that we're investing out of

24:45 is 900 million. - Yeah. - So I will say though, there has been a company in this Fund of Fund program that actually returned half of our entire fund. - Wow. - And so this was back in the day a little bit. - A little donation. - Yeah, a little bit smaller fund sizes for Felicis.

25:02 So those are fun. And it's fun for me to talk about, however, that's actually not the real goal there, right? Like taking 5% of your capital and doing something is most likely not for major financial impact. - Right, right. - What the impact actually should be and has been as well

25:17 is helping Felicis extend our reach into areas that we're learning about, or areas that we want further and deeper penetration. So this could often be sector-specific funds. It could be kind of node or network-specific. It could be very rarely,

25:34 but occasionally regionally specific. - Okay, yeah. - And so that is the goal. So many of these are solo GPs, a big difference of this type of work in diligence versus my work from my prior roles is like in those roles, we were writing 20, 30,

25:50 $40 million checks. I thought this was very normal, but I remember moving from one job to the next. Someone said to me, "Do you really think you need to write 30-page memos?" And I was like, I mean, I always did. So, but--

26:05 - That was the short version. - Yeah. - That was the short version. - Yeah, do you not want to read this all? - Yeah, come on. So that's very different than what I'm doing here. Yes, of course I'm doing diligence. In fact, the one thing I end up doing is educating

26:20 some first time managers on different LPA provisions and different things like, "Hey, right now you are raising $7 million, $20 million, whatever it is." If you later want to bring in institutional investors, these are the things they're going to ask you. So you can do it now, or you don't have to. You can do it later, but think about this, right?

26:36 It'll happen, and you have perspective, both as having been an institutional investor and now having a series of them. - Yes, exactly. So I do, if someone is very resistant to that kind of conversation, I do kind of talk a little note in my head and say, "Okay, you know what, that's okay.

26:52 "This person is really relevant for this moment. "I can start, I'm already starting to see signs "that they may not want to take on "what is the very, very difficult job "of actually building a firm and fund after fund after fund." But that's okay for this program.

27:08 I just sort of, I kind of need to know that 'cause then I do some things on the legal side to make sure it's very tucked in. Let's call it from a tax perspective and everything, but the other thing is, I'm just looking for someone who also wants to work with us, right?

27:24 And chat with us. That doesn't mean we need to, I used to, so here you've asked me a couple, before we started recording, you asked me some things like, "What's changed?" And this is one thing that's changed. 'Cause I used to feel like, okay, I need to have quarterly meetings with this person. I need to do this, but that's actually not effective.

27:41 - Yeah, yeah. - Which is a really good news for people who hate race recurring meetings on their calendar, which is most of us. So that, what I'm really looking for is someone who, it doesn't have to be me, but someone who connects with someone on our team. And already typically is having regular conversations with them.

27:59 So for example, an investment that I'm close to making now, they've already been talking to my team members some deep for, I think years, like their texting basis. And then he's like, "Katie, you know, "you should look at this for the fund to fund." So I'm like, "Perfect, let's do it." And so that's an extension of it,

28:14 and I think hopefully helps that person, like helps them 500K is often, unless it's a very small fund, is not going to meaningfully push their fund forward, but we always, we all know how much every single dollar counts, so.

28:29 - Yeah, absolutely. Well, and one thing that I love that you mentioned is, it's more of poor and fuel on a fire that's there. It's not necessarily going out there and creating a new relationship and creating a side that you must meet with us once a month, once a quarter. And, you know, the benefit to emerging managers

28:45 outside of fundraising is part of our job and investing in the earliest stages is to have deep partnerships with groups that can work with our companies as they think about the next stage as they scale their businesses. So it's, you know, one strategy of ours has been

29:00 to cultivate these types of relationships. And for us, that's positive. And I think the impact and this is what you go for is when we're in IC or portfolio support and we think, all right, they're getting ready to go out for their A or for a proper seed. So, oh, we got to make sure to reach out to these people because we've cultivated that deep relationship.

29:16 And there's that additional visibility that is so critical as you're thinking about exposure into new markets. - Exactly, that's the ideal situation. Some of my, you know, the best thing is if they're sort of friends or buddies with a couple different people on the team

29:31 and they're just texting everyone. And then of course, I'm overlaying it with some data and analytics. And now we can use AI for some of this to make sure we don't miss something, right? Because everyone's busy and, you know, maybe they just missed each other or something. So that is like the support that I'm providing to the team

29:49 is we're looking at every single company and triaging it through our formal triage. Of course, you know, that's, you know, a little delayed because we're getting that from the reporting. - Right, right. - Yeah. - So a question for you then is obviously existing relationships are cultivating those over time.

30:06 Outside of the check the boxes doing the diligence around making sure you have the proper processes and things in place. What are some of the maybe one or two intangibles that really help emerging managers stand out? And I say this with a lot of empathy because there's been an explosion of emerging managers,

30:22 especially as fun admin tools have made it easier than ever to step out. There's certainly within our ecosystem there's a boom within AI. But what are you looking for when you're really at the finish line outside of a data room aspect?

30:37 Like what are the things you're really trying to assess? - I will say something that I saw an item back in 2010. So if you take yourself way back there, right? It was not none of the things you just said were available. - Yeah. Peas were definitely like, okay, let me find,

30:54 how do I get into Sequoia, whatever? And like people were not very, they weren't even really spin outs at that time. If there was it was like, what happened, right? Like what's going on here? And so for him to start back then, and also what ended up making me wanna join this team

31:12 is that he really cared about the LP. So it's something really simple that he did that I will never forget, and it reminds me I should be doing this too, is he, and this was like a paper deck, right? With the spiral and everything.

31:28 So we're sitting there, and it's still unusual to have someone entering the market as a new GP with a, he did have experience, right? He invested 5 million of his own capital over the previous four years and to about 100 investments. So he had a bit of a track, pretty good drive record.

31:44 But he put our name on the front of the deck. And I'm like, all right, this dude was in his office or maybe at home, I don't even know if he has an office and printed this out and changed the logo. And you know what, that's so simple.

31:59 But here's how you can translate that today 'cause nobody is using paper decks. You can ask someone about themselves. You can start a conversation with that LP, or maybe you kind of framed it as at the finish line. You could do it in any place,

32:14 hopefully at the beginning, but is like, what's behind what you invest in or what makes you get excited? Whatever your version of is like, why are you here basically, right? And I think that GPs so often breathlessly start

32:32 giving their pitch and so very much want to tell their story because they feel like that's what they were invited to the call to do, which is kind of true. But if you can just start by asking the LP a couple questions,

32:48 some of the stuff you're asking me, right? They can just sort of copy this podcast, right? What are you looking for, just reverse it? - Yeah. - Why, what's the, maybe they don't want to name it? So give them some grace and an out. Like, hey, you don't have to tell me the names, but can you describe the last two or three venture investments

33:04 that you made? I'd love to understand what you look for in a manager. And just taking that moment or like, oh, what does venture investing mean to your org? - You know, if it's only do this venture, that's skip that one. But that I think is what I look for is someone

33:19 who is looking to have that relationship. Or just cares to ask somebody else about what they're doing rather than just blasting. I think that's a very, I think people get sometimes nervous. I think they also don't know. Like it's okay to ask LP's these questions.

33:35 It's totally, it's in fact, you should. - Yeah, I think it's wonderful advice because I look back to when we were first starting to find and that was it, it was like, we have a call. The goal here is to tell you as much as I can about myself. And I remember one of my early mentors, he said, well, what are you, what are you trying to sell here?

33:51 What are you trying to do? And I said, well, early stage access to broad swath of FinTech investing because this is like, I'm gonna stop you like you're selling trust. And that first meeting is about creating that connection and cultivating that relationship. It's wonderful advice. And I feel like we have learned from our best founders too,

34:07 those that really come in and understand the dynamics and what value we can add. And I'll throw in a little trick there. What I'll do is handwritten thank you cards. So to your point, we're at one point we're printing out decks and then you can spend a lot and usually they end up in the trash and sometimes people are like,

34:23 well, this is kind of a waste of paper anyway. But just thanking people for the opportunity, especially after the best connections is just one way to stand out. And I'm curious, especially with your own LP relationships,

34:38 there's certainly you want to get to know each other, building a relationship. It's more important than ever in this AI era to build that deep connection and trust. But how do you balance that with also understanding, is this an opportunity I should pursue now for an open vehicle or should I cultivate this for the future?

34:54 How do you think about balancing your own relationships to keep enduring relationships, but also to make sure that you're coming away with an understanding of how actionable is this today. Therefore, how should we spend our time today

35:09 over just maintaining a really good relationship? - Yeah, I think this is one of the toughest questions. Here's why I think it's tough, is that I think people feel uncomfortable asking it and sometimes people feel uncomfortable answering it.

35:25 And I think it's because nobody wants to disappoint anybody. And that's okay. So here's how I open that door a little bit is, I ask question and I actually need to know this information. So this is not like a ploy to get information,

35:41 right, that's directly info I need. I asked one of them I already said, right, is, hey, what's the last couple of venture investments you've made? If someone says, oh, you know, we actually have been committed to a venture fund in the last year, like, there's your answer. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:56 - And that's okay. And then you say, oh, when do you think you'll start again? Or is there like a, sometimes it's a budget thing, right, a lot of the seems to have settled down quite a bit. A lot of the endowments went through that, a lot of sort of over their skis type of thing. - The denominator problem was impacting a lot of people.

36:13 - Yeah. And so that's just like, that's okay. That's normal conversation topic. Like you don't need to be nervous about it. And I think that another way to start to get that, which I think this is extremely valuable information is who is on your investment committee? Can you tell me how your investment committee works?

36:30 Do you have, you also, you know, you're an operator like, we all need to know who's actually making the decision. That is very important if you are hoping to get money at the end of this investment, at the end of this conversation or relationship, right? - Right, right.

36:45 - And so who is making the decision? Do you have discretion? Do you have an investment committee that has discretion? How does it work? Do you have regular meetings? All of these things are just you learning about this prospect. And through that, you're probably gonna figure out

37:00 that because everyone's pretty smart, hopefully people are sort of intuiting some of this. And then I think you can also directly ask, are you, you don't have to say, are you gonna invest in me? - Yeah. - What you can say? - What's the chances? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You're telling me there's a chance. But there's, what you can say is,

37:17 are you planning to add new relationships in the next six months or whatever? - Yeah, that's a wonderful way to put it. And I'm sure you find this too. Sometimes when you open up the conversation, there's almost a breath of ease from their side because they can provide full disclosure.

37:32 And especially if they're not allocating at the moment. Sometimes it comes off and I'm sorry, this may not be what you wanna hear. But what I found is when you react positively to that, no, thank you, actually, that's really helpful. And I still see a ton of value here because of these different things.

37:47 What's the best way to stay engaged? So I think it doesn't similar for founders, right? When I join a call, I either tell them, "Let's spend time so you fully understand us and our process." - Yeah. - Or if the founders that ask that right off the bat, that's a positive sign.

38:03 I'm curious for you with the LPs, the both that you have, we talked about AGMs, we talked about check-ins. How do you like to create a cadence of communication and staying engaged with your existing base? How do you think about cultivating relationships with those that are adjacent to you?

38:19 How do you think about the balancing of time? And obviously you want people to feel like they're engaged but you don't wanna send them a weekly summary email of all the things you're doing. So how have you found that balance of communication? - Even having done this for many years, this is I find it challenging because

38:36 here we've got 20 years of portfolio activity to report on. And so I'm very lucky to have be part of an organization that has an entire department in our CMO,

38:51 Alisa dedicated to helping communicate to the world, really, what is going on at Felicis? What is Felicis about? What sectors are we interested in? We publish our CCs and thought pieces,

39:06 some really cool newsletters that are pretty data heavy. So that, it's actually funny, I would never actually say that's what I was thinking of myself. If I just told Alisa to follow our LinkedIn and look at our website and I say that

39:22 because one of my LPs actually said to me, he's like, actually, I follow you on LinkedIn and I feel like I get 90% of the non-in-person stuff that I need, then I do these, the big annual meeting, which you heard a little bit about that,

39:37 and then I do a semi-annual webinar. - Great, yeah. - So that is like content, okay? We all need it, we all know it. And like I said, I'm very fortunate to be on a platform where it's very heavily supported. - Awesome. - Yeah.

39:53 - I will say something controversial here. We do not do quarterly investor letters. And I will tell you that I have, don't do that one because there's so much support. And having spent many years as an LP and talked to many LPs at like the cocktail

40:11 of an annual meeting, traveling together, whatever it is, they do not have time to read them all. - Right, right. - And some people just love it and like they'll download it on their computer and they'll spend their whole flight reading it. But I should do like an anonymous survey, my guess is that less than half

40:28 or even smaller portion are reading it. - Right, or we're putting it now at 10 LLM, summarizing it, give me the five key points. Yeah, and you spend weeks crafting what you think is, yeah. - So how do we overcome this? Because people are doing that

40:43 not because they have nothing else to do. They're doing it because they think the LPs have asked for this information. In some cases, the LPs actually have asked for this information. So how do you close that gap? So one of the things that we did was, and this is pretty recent, I think we launched this like, say last fall.

41:00 So we're maybe nine months in, is we actually have an AI tool that LPs can use. - Oh, nice. - And so this was really fun and really cool. As far as I know, we're still the only firm to have this. And so what we did was essentially take one

41:15 of our internal tools, which is a tool called Workbench, which is actually a product of one of our portfolio companies called Tines. And that is, we've sort of evolved our tools internally now, but that was our key AI launch inside Felices

41:31 for our own use, right? Like anyone could type in there, and it would basically pull from Salesforce, which is our map, that's basically where everything is, a pull from our finance data. So you could say like, give me the thesis of why we invested in this company, or tell me all the rounds we invested in,

41:46 which you know is like, nobody can memorize all that. And it's hard to find, and it's in three different systems, so cool. So basically I ring fenced it, 'cause we can't give 100% of that out, it because you know, we can't give 100% of that out because it includes stuff we didn't do and whatever. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure data protection purposes. Yeah. And so the LPs

42:06 have loved it. Like people come up to me like, your tool is the best thing. And I look at the quest, because I can see the questions I ask is funny, because I can see about half of them are very direct about Felices. Tell me the last five investments Felices made. Yeah. And

42:22 it might be because they're coming to meet us and they want to prep or I don't know, they just want to know. And about half of them, I'm not sure, but my intuition tells me it's actually before they're meeting with another manager. Interesting. Because of the way it's asked, like,

42:37 tell me everything you can about this company or why would this company have done this or what's the last round post or something? Yeah, like super specific stuff. So that's great. Yeah. If we can make their lives easier in any way possible, but to come back

42:55 to actually answer your question, what do I do? So I have, I have these things, you know, I told you I did the semiannual webinar, we do the annual meeting, we have all the newsletters, I have the AI tool. And I think the, I don't want to say the most valuable is value in a totally

43:10 different way, is about two years ago, we started doing, we need a better name for this, we call them retreats, essentially. Okay. And so we take about five or six LPs, five or six founders and like eight

43:25 or nine investment team members and a couple other executive members of the FLE ASIS team, and we go somewhere fun and somewhere nice. Yeah. And I have zero content. Because, go ahead. No, no, it creates no expectation around learning or panels

43:43 or preparation, it just removes the barriers. Exactly. Yeah. It removes the barriers. And so I told you I felt like I took a big risk when I, you know, when I tell the story, it doesn't sound like a big risk, but, you know, doing this afternoon annual meeting thing, where basically I was

43:58 like, all right, we're doing a big Ask Me Anything, and we mean it, ask me anything. This also felt like a risk, right? Asking people to step away, asking people to, and I say zero content, clearly it's 100% work related, right? Yeah. To have this time to get to know a

44:16 FLEASIS team member or for LPs to get to know each other, yeah, is incredibly valuable. And it's not long, right? It's like basically two nights, and then you're gone, right? Yeah. Yeah. But that has been,

44:31 you asked about maintaining relationships. I usually go for add one or two prospective, and I mean like highly qualified prospective, they're not going to say like, I just met you. Do you want to come hang out with me for two days, right? Yeah. Highly qualified prospective LPs to this, because that is a way

44:49 for them to get to know this firm. Obviously our LPs all like us, I think they do, right? They're going to get that pure experience as well. Yeah. And that is really important. Now for that, and by the way, one of our LPs said to me after one of them, he's like, Katie, so he ended up

45:07 in like they, we go outside sometimes, they went fly fishing or something. So he was in a car with, it happened to be all LPs in this one car. They were a car for, I don't know, 45 minutes. And he said like, the three of us just got more off sheet references done in this 45 minute car

45:23 ride than I could have done in like weeks of trying to schedule calls with people. Yeah. Great bonus. Perfect. Yeah. Cream on top. So that experience is really cool. Yeah. So I think you can think beyond like way beyond update emails and that might

45:41 not be accessible to emerging managers in that way, but maybe it's something like that. Like can the emerging managers find a way to engage in a more authentic way and really get to know each other. I think you have to be careful about how far along you are with someone. Like it may not feel as

46:00 effective if there's very new relationship. But yeah, I think I also, I'm also very selective about this. I don't blast it out, but I do invite them to watch the recordings of our webinars. Gotcha.

46:16 Yeah. So if you have, and I recommend NDA in that case, but that is another way to keep prospects like, hey, we haven't talked in a while. I just wanted to let you know I loaded this webinar into the data room. I put it on chapters. You can skip to what you want and watch it on

46:33 two times speed. Yeah. Like. And just a great way to get a sense of the relationships and the people on the cultivation. I love that you're, that the retreats, they sound very fun too, but just a great way to build that trust that relationship building, the things that are very intangible and

46:49 a steady cadence of news and communication cultivated. I'm curious for, you had mentioned, for merging managers where budgets are a little bit tighter, what have been some of the best forms of communication that you receive? And I know we already talked about, usually already on a texting basis

47:05 with some folks within the organization, but how do you like to ingest information? What's, what's, do you feel like has been the most effective? No, I think, well, like the most action-oriented

47:21 effected for, effective for what we actually want is just that email. Like this , this company's raising, they asked to meet with you to one of you, but to broaden it, to be more applicable to everybody. Here's another one of my theories, which I, I don't know if this one

47:36 's actually controversial. I don't think anyone's going to argue with me on this one is, so you send a newsletter, okay? How many times are you willing to do this on your phone? Scroll on your phone before you, your kid pulls your pant leg, or someone talks to you, or a message shows up?

47:54 Right. Two? Maybe, maybe two, depending on, yeah. Three, if you're like, I don't know, some special place by yourself. Yeah, if it's my kids, I wouldn't even get to the inbox by the time I sent it. Okay, well, that's interesting. I mean, that's what I was going to say is like, keep it

48:10 short, keep it punchy. Like, here's the new investment that I made. Here's why I made it. Like, you can't jam it all in. You have to just be selective. Just write to it, yeah. And whatever you, you told me a story about how someone said it's like, it's trust. And so I

48:25 would, that you're, that you're actually selling here. And so whatever it is that you have said, you're unique, write to whatever you want to think of it. Some people call it, you know, competitive advantage. I think right to win is more applicable to this market because it's so

48:41 competitive. Right, right. Yeah. Like it should deliver that really easily and then have the LP go, oh, yeah, like, they told me they were going to do that. And look, okay, interesting. And the consistency over how you're showing that over time.

48:56 I think, yeah, and I don't know, this might be a personal preference. If someone's showing up more than once every three weeks, like, I start, it's just, it's hard to, like, is there really something new here? Right. So I think like once, if you have something once a month, I think it's okay to share. I think so people, honestly, I think once a quarter

49:13 , people kind of forget. Right. Right. So that's also how you have the drip campaigns in between . But that's your point. That's nice with, at least for you, it's a combination of newsletters, updates, thoughtful insights, social posting and making sure that you're sharing those

49:28 updates. By annual, quarterly reporting that people can engage in creating those in- person interactions that create a nice, healthy balance. And I do, like, I'm trying to think creatively about what can emerging managers do. And I mean, this is not rocket science, but I do

49:46 think that conferences actually work a little better for emerging managers because if you are at one of the higher quality ones, then the LPs are there because they're actually interested in emerging managers. So this conversation we had before about like, oh, hey, new LP. Oh,

50:04 what's the last two investments you made in venture? Like, oh, you haven't invested in venture for two years. Okay. You know, hopefully that doesn't happen, but sometimes it does as you're casting a wide net. So I think those could be useful. I think people have actually gotten investments out of these

50:19 conferences. And any names that come to mind for you, there's always the razors of the world and the milkins and super returns. Sometimes these events are great. Sometimes they can't really remind me of, like, my undergrad career fairs or you're all showing up wearing the

50:34 same thing, your resumes look similar. But have there been any that you recommend or that you go to? Well, one that I've regularly gone to, yeah, you said raise, but I was actually thinking all raise, which both I think are good. So I think that that I attended last year,

50:53 and I think they even surveyed, or maybe I did this on a panel, maybe I actually asked this question, is how many people raised funds from someone they had met in an event or it could have been a post-event survey. Now I can't remember that that that I think is effective. So that's

51:09 clearly targeted at women investors. And I actually really like women in VC as well. They're just more, they're like, they're not that very big, for better for us. And they're just, I think people are like really

51:24 open to conversation. I don't know, I haven't been to as many these days, but SVB used to host a great one. I don't know if they still do. And I'd have to look into that a little bit more.

51:41 I didn't went to one recently that I don't know how many emerging managers were there, but there could have been some and it was called a capital allocators conference. And he just came back and said he was like one of the most valuable experiences that he'd had in

51:56 a while. We talked a lot about AI, we talked a lot about skill versus luck. What is one thing that people mistake for skill within the VC category? So put your LP hat on. When you're assessing managers, maybe what's one thing that everyone says, this is our key different

52:13 iator. What's this thing? But it feels like it's become table stakes or something that you look at and it to say that that's not really a huge differentiation. That's a good question. So I think this evolves a lot. So when you think about,

52:30 all right, you are a person who has now taken money from other people and your job is to multiply it, let's be honest, five times. Three is really, really good. But I think what LP's are hoping for, especially from emerging managers, is five times. So what

52:46 does it take to do that? And I think what most people get really excited about because it's fun , it's competitive, it gets your juices flowing basically is finding and winning the deal. Now that is really,

53:01 really important because if you can't do that, you don't have a portfolio. But what happens after that? And I think there's a lot of things that can happen after that. One, you can do nothing, but that should be your stated strategy is like, we spend all of our time doing this, it's all about our founder network and that's it. Whatever happens happens. We

53:20 don't have time for reserves, we don't have money for reserves, it's fine. What I think some people say is they say, well then I'm going to do all this stuff. I'm like the Sherpa, I'm going to do all these things and that's fine. But what is that getting you? Are you still going to get squ

53:38 ashed down in the next round? Think about what's next because when you enter this relationship with an LP, again, let's be honest, it's like two decades. So this is the fun, exciting,

53:54 hot part of like, I got into the company, super important, but then what? And so one over laying one way that I kind of asked to figure out, has someone thought about what's next? It's just like, I know everyone says, what's your reserve strategy? My version

54:11 of that is, what's your portfolio construction? Not hopefully pretty much a softball, but you'd be a little surprised. Sometimes I'm like, that wasn't a softball and that's okay. But that kind of helps me understand is this person just all about just this one piece, which might make

54:32 sense for them, but it's just good to know. And to your point too, when you think about at the end of the day, it's cash on cash returns and doing so five X times, certainly three to five seems to be the standard, but you want to exceed five X if you want to do this for a long time. Profile of the construction is so meaningful within that because there's so

54:50 much that goes into the construction and weight and ownership. And how do you think about being able to get that access? We talked a bit. One of my favorite questions is like, what do most managers do? You wish they did less, but we talked about coming in and just telling your story. And you see that? I'm going to flip that question where what is something that

55:08 a manager has done recently that was pleasantly surprising, something that you wish more managers would do, whether it was a follow up or questions they asked, but something that really caught you off guard in a good way and you're like, wow, that was awesome. I wish more people would ask

55:24 that or do that. That's good. I just had a meeting kind of like that. I hate to get the answer. It was kind of the vibe. This person, it actually comes back to this topic we've been returning to

55:40 . I think you and I both hit it a couple of times. You framed it a little bit as trust. I framed it as someone is reaching out or wants to talk to you about something, but what is it that they actually need? So this person, he had confidence, meaning that I think he knew that he was

56:01 incredibly, he absolutely talked about his track record. He talked about some really good investment city made and the returns that they were contributing to a firm that he had left had wonderful things to say about them. I could tell it wasn't weird. I was just like, and at the same time, I could tell he was confident in what he was doing and

56:19 that he'd get there and that if it was a match and he told me why he thought it was a match, but it was just this really authentic engagement where clearly he was selling. He listed it all out in a way that just felt so inviting, not like this person just wants to be

56:40 really good at this, and not all of us can do that. Some people are just naturally that way, but I think that knowing that if you really have a product and a fund and a strategy that is

56:56 really matched for the market and whatever you will find in the capital, it will come to you, essentially. You have to find your way of raising it authentically. Yeah, I love that because it's focused more on creating the connection.

57:14 Certainly having your ducks in a row, so you're not just feeling like, "I'm going to figure this out and start writing checks," but to a point where you can focus on building that connection, having that overlap, and conveying confidence in you as an individual, but in a strategy and a differentiation

57:29 and using your track record to explain it. It's funny that that's something we wish we saw more of, but I think it happens even between founders and VCs and certainly VCs and allocators, and it's just sometimes it takes practice. Sometimes you have to have that. That's amazing.

57:45 Before we jump to our last question, what's one AI trend that you're really excited about, either as a firm? Obviously, you all made some incredible investments. You've been around the space for a while. You built out some great tools internally. I'll keep it as wide as you'd like to go, but where do you get the most excited in your day-to-day with advancements

58:04 and where you see things shifting? Okay, well, I'll give you another controversial take. The firm has not agreed to do this yet. I'm really excited about this. I really want to make an avatar of me,

58:25 an item, and maybe other people on the team, and have us answering the most commonly asked LP questions. So we've all seen it. I was looking at Instagram the other day, and I was like,

58:40 I love this person so much. 100% of this person is AI because they could not, no human is this perfect. I love this and I hate this, but it's not for that. And this would be 100% transparent with our core values, obviously. But I'm just like, hey, are we

58:59 ready for this LP? Can we do everything we already do? Do the webinar? Obviously, focus on these more unscripted moments that I've been telling you about that we've been talking about. So our

59:14 in-person time can be more like this, like a conversation spending time together. And then the content delivery we've also been talking about, we've already talked about blogs, newsletters, all of this stuff. Is it time for some of that other content delivery? I'm sure you

59:34 have been asked the same question. How many times? Every time? Many times? Yeah. It's okay, because all of LP's need to know that information. But does that mean that should be delivered by you live? Preferably not. Yeah. And would they like to actually consume

59:53 information a different way? I don't know. You can see we've been experimenting with this. Yeah, especially the GPT that you had mentioned or the LLM that you created that has all the information. It's kind of a self-serve portal. I think the balance, at least the way that we think of it too, is how

60:08 do you create that templatization to try to make it more efficient for everyone while not degrading the relationship as much, where founders or investors can come and access the information, but don't feel like you say a great question. Talk to the avatar

60:23 where it kind of feels more self-serve. Well, you have to, like, okay, let's say you're writing an investment memo. What if you had me sitting right next to you? Okay, like, oh, can you remind me how do you guys do reserves? Yeah. I'm not talking, like, what's your biggest hope and dream,

60:38 right? It's stuff that is like has one answer, basically, right? Yeah. Is like, okay, you know, there's one answer to that, pretty much it might be a change is over time. But right now, this is how we do our reserves. Yeah. Yeah. For your champions internally, as they're putting together the

60:54 materials, what a wonderful resource. Yeah. Or like how, and you could, this could just still be the chat box, but yeah, I'm just kind of like, this is so available to us. Yeah. The information's there. Yeah. With this, you have to pair it though with, okay, now we are going to expand the time and

61:09 attention and space that we give to what I'm going to call interactive relationship building time. Yeah. Yeah. I think we very much echo that. And like an age of AI where content and information

61:24 is more accessible, how do you think about recreating those in-person interactions, the spontaneous around the strength thing? But I love that idea. Maybe next time we do this, it'll be Katie Avatar talking to Marcos Avatar and asking some great questions between the two. But before I let you go, podcast, book recommendation for

61:41 anyone who's aspiring to enter the space. And then one, just for, you've got a couple hours, you've got free time, what are you reading or what are you listening to? Let's see. So, well, the podcast, I will recommend was actually tied to the

61:57 conference that I said, one of my colleague, I didn't attend it, our founder, and that is capital alloc ators by 10 scientists. I think that's just really good education for everybody. And interesting one, let's see, what books am I reading? I have, you might have gotten me on this

62:15 one. I'm like, I haven't been reading a lot. That means you're busy in the right way . Yeah. Well, I can give you a different thing than I'm doing. Please, yeah. So, this might be something that people might do instead of reading. So, if we

62:33 went into my office right now, you would see that there's an entire jar of squishies on my desk. I realized I'm a very tactile person. And so, I've actually started doing some embroidery.

62:48 I like this bag and there's a little pattern. So, when I want to kind of just relax and I found that there are amazing gifts, and I found this amazing lady online who shows you how to do it. And so, that is my

63:03 relaxation, which isn't exactly what you were asking. But I think that sometimes our brain actually needs a break and our body needs to do something. Yeah. It could be sports, it could be something more active. But if you're kind of like, I need to sit and chill. It's meditative. You're actively working on something. You're putting them

63:20 together. And then the gifts part is just the added bonus because people understand that it takes time and process to think about that. And you can make them customized. Well, next time I'm in here and I say, how did you close your next major fund? And you said, it's actually, remember, I told you I was in embroidering. I made all of our L

63:35 Ps like special. That could be fun, yeah. That's it. That's it. Kitty, thank you so much. And congratulations to you on a wonderful career. Thank you for spending time with us. And you're really just shedding light to so much knowledge around what you've done, what you're building and congrats on a

63:50 wonderful firm at Felices. And excited to see many ways and how you're making an impact on the world around you. Excited to find more investments to work on together. So, thank you. Thank you, Marcos. Absolutely. And that's a wrap for LPN covered. Thank you so much to Katie and the Felices team for hosting us in their

64:06 beautiful offices here in the Presidio in San Francisco. I learned a ton. I hope you did too around LP relationships, engaging long-term alignment of values. Also, the goal of this is to help provide visibility to you of the different types of allocators out there. What's important and

64:22 what's not, for Felices, it's developing these really deep relationships. And as an emerging manager, it's more than just capital allocation, but it's having relationships with firms that can lead rounds and graduate your portfolio companies into their ecosystems. Congratulations to them on all

64:37 the success and the firm that they've built. I hope you've learned a ton from today. And we're looking forward to bringing you more episodes like this on LPN covered.